Any Geomancers Here?

[Barleywine]

Geomancy Experiment

I've started using the I Ching-style "moving line" concept when crafting the Mother figures, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. The way it's working at present is I introduced seven appropriately-colored "planetary" stones into the population of stones I draw from to come up with the odd and even variables (bringing the total to 23 and further mitigating the "selective fingertips" dilemma). Sun, Mars and Jupiter are "positive" and Moon, Venus and Saturn are "negative;" Mercury I consider "androgynous" and I hold it in reserve, to be used only if I need to develop a Reconciler. If I draw a positive planetary stone for any line, I bump the total of the "grab" up by one to change its binary value from odd to even or vice-versa. If I draw a negative planetary stone, I bump the total down one, with the same result. If I draw Mercury, I note which Mother line it appeared in and set it aside. If I draw multiples of either type, they will reinforce or cancel each other out as applicable.

The figure with the changed line (i.e. "moving" line) I place in a second set of Mother figures, much like the creation of a second hexagram in I Ching. Those figures with no "moving" lines I move over intact. Regarding the Reconciler if needed, I create one from the original set of figures and one using a first Mother with a "moving" line inserted in the same position it was originally drawn for, to show two possible sides of the extrapolated development. So far I haven't had to use it.

The Witnesses and Judge that devolve from the first unaltered set of figures I consider the "Near-Term Outcome," and the adjusted set I view as the "Extended Forecast." So far I've done a few divinations with it, and in all cases the two outcomes were complementary (sometimes even producing the same Judge) and the astro-geomancy charts were mutually supportive. One (a business start-up question) showed delayed early success after difficulties with seed money but strong support on the domestic front leading to a good result in the short term, and long-term triumph through actively enlisting the support of other people, either customers or investors.

This has been an interesting experiment that gives a fuller data set with more possibilities for multi-pathed interpretation.

 

[crystal dawn]

I've started using the I Ching-style "moving line" concept when crafting the Mother figures, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. The way it's working at present is I introduced seven appropriately-colored "planetary" stones into the population of stones I draw from to come up with the odd and even variables (bringing the total to 23 and further mitigating the "selective fingertips" dilemma). Sun, Mars and Jupiter are "positive" and Moon, Venus and Saturn are "negative;" Mercury I consider "androgynous" and I hold it in reserve, to be used only if I need to develop a Reconciler. If I draw a positive planetary stone for any line, I bump the total of the "grab" up by one to change its binary value from odd to even or vice-versa. If I draw a negative planetary stone, I bump the total down one, with the same result. If I draw Mercury, I note which Mother line it appeared in and set it aside. If I draw multiples of either type, they will reinforce or cancel each other out as applicable.

The figure with the changed line (i.e. "moving" line) I place in a second set of Mother figures, much like the creation of a second hexagram in I Ching. Those figures with no "moving" lines I move over intact. Regarding the Reconciler if needed, I create one from the original set of figures and one using a first Mother with a "moving" line inserted in the same position it was originally drawn for, to show two possible sides of the extrapolated development. So far I haven't had to use it.

The Witnesses and Judge that devolve from the first unaltered set of figures I consider the "Near-Term Outcome," and the adjusted set I view as the "Extended Forecast." So far I've done a few divinations with it, and in all cases the two outcomes were complementary (sometimes even producing the same Judge) and the astro-geomancy charts were mutually supportive. One (a business start-up question) showed delayed early success after difficulties with seed money but strong support on the domestic front leading to a good result in the short term, and long-term triumph through actively enlisting the support of other people, either customers or investors.

This has been an interesting experiment that gives a fuller data set with more possibilities for multi-pathed interpretation.

Exellent work barleywine, I have never thought about using changing lines, in geomancy before, despite being well aware of the simmularities of the structure of the figures to the I ching for some time.
Love your slant on geomancy readings. Its good to have fresh insights.

I in one of know Nigel Pennicks books on geomancy it says quote

"just because geomancy has a venerable ancestary, we, as present day practicioners of the skill, should not belittle our ability to make fresh insights, those who fail to do this become fundamentalists - people who believe that the complete truth was revealed in antiquity and that the present day can make no contribution but to slavishly follow the past."

I tend to use druid sticks to make up the mother figures.

blessed be

crystal dawn

 

[Barleywine]

I've been thinking how this might be applied to other methods of generating the Mother figures so that it would remain objective and suitably random. If dice are used, one face out of 6 could be painted a different color and treated as a "moving line" when it turns up. The same could be done for a few dominoes in a set. If you don't want to paint on those very beautiful druid sticks, you could possibly use a few more of them to ensure randomness and affix a small, inconspicuous marker of some kind to one end of one side on a couple of the sticks. The model I had in mind was to make it similar to but somewhat less frequent than the occurrence of reversed cards in tarot reading. I'm not yet clear on how to do it for random marks made on paper or in earth, and am open to suggestions. One possibility might be to give the role of changeling to one of the geomantic figures that is about fluctuation, movement or motive force to begin with (Via and Populous come to mind, as do Puer and Rubeus). The entire figure could be changed to its opposite when it is moved to the second set. (Although this is less subtle than changing single lines.)

 

[crystal dawn]

more pieces to work with

Also another thing I found interesting was that in sikidy and other african and arabic forms of geomancy that the figure Via was the most important - the way the path. Also it was seen as the first of the figures and the most perfect. Also via is the only figure where all four elements (fire,air,water and earth) are active.

I have just purchased "geomancy for beginners by Richard Webster) - even though I am not a beginner myself and have been using geomancy for many years , I was instantly drawn to this book and always believe that we are forever learning. Its a pretty good book, it even has a chapter on the spirits associated with each figure. I have seen the spirits listed before in various tables but have not come accross a book that describes them in detail and how they can help in a reading, and each spirits properties and which work well with each other and which combinations do not work so well.

blessed be

crystal dawn

 

[MareSaturni]

I usually use Geomancy in combination with Playing Cards. In the method I use, called The Playing Card Oracles (developed by Ana Cortez and her father), we calculate Geomantic figures using the playing cards. The Geomancy helps in the interpretation of the spread.

But I also have other books on Geomancy. One is a Geomantic oracle called Géomancia: Le tarot de la Terre (Geomancy, the tarot of earth) that gives a simplified way to use geomancy (simplified, no simplistic!). And I have a book in Portuguese that formally teaches Geomantic calculations, and I have done a few of those already with interesting results!

As I am not very experienced when it comes to the most complex parts of Astrology, I only apply basic Astrology to my Geomancy. Houses, ruleships etc. I find that it is enough, as I have no interest of merging every aspect of each art.

I love Geomancy, and wish I had more opportunities of using it. I love how it connects to many other arts, such as Playing Cards and Astrology, and yet is able to exists as an ageless and formidable practice on its own. The Geomantic figures speak to the Arabic part of my blood!

 

[crystal dawn]

great idea using playing cards.

thats the beauty of geomancy you only have to delve into it as deep as you wish. Even if you scratch the surface, that would be enough to give a good reading.

blessed be

crystal dawn

 

[Sedi]

I have been using geomancy for a while now. I didn't get on with it for a long time simply because the traditional interpretations of the figure was so scant and I couldn't really make a reading out of them. They sort of pointed in the direction of an answer but I couldn't really get into it.

Several years on and via much more understanding of astrology (to help with the background) and Tarot (to help with the reading skills) I developed new way of creating a geomantic chart.

I can't say too much about it on the board as we're not supposed to plug our websits and wares.

There are several ways you can create the figures (which I call 'geomes') - playing cards, a die (I use a D12, one of the platonic solids) to get odd and even for the different levels and another throw to get the house. I favour using gemstones for each of the geomes - it makes creating the reading much faster. You can use a Pendulum instead over a table of the figures, or throw four coins (heads and tails) or just use four slips of paper with one and two spots ('taps') on each side. Mix them up and draw them out of a suitable container.

The reason I like to use gemstones is that it is fast, colourful and each gemstone has a link to both a geome and a planet. They are essentially coloured markers (the colours being based on Cheiro's associations) of both planetary and geome connections (rather than using them for their 'properties' for, say, protection, clarity, etc.).

I too use a variation of the I Ching's young and old lines to show how one geome morphs into another.

Geomancy was one of the seven forbidden magical arts (Cartomancy was not even included on the list!). It would be wonderful to see it flourish again!

Thanks for starting the thread.

 

[crystal dawn]

I finally put together the Golden Dawn elemental attributes from The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic with the planetary assignments from Stephen Skinner's Oracle of Geomancy and came up with the following alignment. The only change I made was to move Fortuna Minor to Air (for which, apparently, there is some historical precedent) in order to create balance. This produces a primarily sign-based system that uses Lilly's planet and sign natures and Agrippa's attributes for Caput Draconis and Cauda Draconis. There are still a few oddities between the elements and the stated natures of the planets (Lilly considers Sol more "temperate" in its heat than Mars!), but I'm basically OK with this from an astrological standpoint. I will give the other alignments (Agrippa, Fludd) another chance if I come up with evidence of a more comprehensive basis for them. According to the experts on the Astrology forum, there probably isn't one.

Fire:

Fortuna Major, Sun – Diurnal (Temperately Hot/Dry/Fiery/Choleric) in Leo (Hot/Dry/Choleric)
Puer, Mars (Hot/Dry/Fiery/Choleric) in Aries (Hot/Dry/Choleric)
Acquisitio, Jupiter (Temperately Hot/Moist/Airy/Sanguine) in Sagittarius (Hot/Dry/Choleric)
Cauda Draconis, South Node in Scorpio – Saturn and Mars – Fire/Choleric

Air:

Fortuna Minor, Sun – Nocturnal (Temperately Hot/Dry/Fiery/Choleric) in Leo (Hot/Dry/Choleric)
Tristitia, Saturn (Cold/Dry/Earthy/Melancholic) in Aquarius (Hot/Moist/Sanguine)
Albus, Mercury (Cold/Dry/Earthy/Melancholic) in Gemini (Hot/Moist/Sanguine)
Puella, Venus (Temperately Cold or Hot/Moist/Phlegmatic - Sanguine) in Libra (Hot/Moist/Sanguine)


Water:

Laetitia, Jupiter (Temperately Hot/Moist/Airy/Sanguine) in Pisces (Cold/Moist/Phlegmatic)
Via, Moon - Waxing (Cold/Moist/Phlegmatic) in Cancer (Cold/Moist/Phlegmatic)
Populus, Moon- Waning (Cold/Moist/Phlegmatic) in Cancer (Cold/Moist/Phlegmatic)
Rubeus, Mars (Hot/Dry/Fiery/Choleric) in Scorpio (Cold/Moist/Phlegmatic)


Earth:

Carcer, Saturn (Cold/Dry/Earthy/Melancholic) in Capricorn (Cold/Dry/Melancholic)
Conjunctio, Mercury (Cold/Dry/Earthy/Melancholic) in Virgo (Cold/Dry/Melancholic)
Amissio, Venus (Temperately Cold or Hot/Moist/Phlegmatic - Sanguine) in Taurus (Cool/Dry/Melancholic)
Caput Draconis, North Node in Capricorn - Jupiter and Venus – Earth/Melancholic

yes I use these attributes as used in Stephen Skinners book Terrestrial Astrology. They make more sense to me.

blessings

crystal

 

[crystal dawn]

In examining the Golden Dawn system of astro-geomantic interpretation, I can across a couple of subtleties that I haven't seen in the other source material.

The first is the idea of "aspects" between the planets assigned to the figures in each of the chart houses. Now, these aren't "real" aspects, which require actual degrees of separation to identify, just 30 degree chunks of real estate that are measured from the "house of the question" in both directions, "Dexter," or counter to the normal progression of the houses, and "Sinister," or in the same direction as that progression. The aspects used are the basic ones from traditional astrology: semi-sextile, sextile, square, trine, quincunx and opposition (there is a mention of semi-squares, but that would require a 45 degree relationship that isn't possible without a mid-point system of division). The idea seems to be that, for example, if there is a figure/planet that is complementary to the one ruling the house of interest in another house 2 slots (60 degrees) or 4 slots (120 degrees) away, it will bring a benevolent influence of the nature of its own house to bear upon the "house of interest." The opposite would be true for a malevolent planet in one of the "hard" aspects; a number of "hard/soft" combinations would also be possible.

The second subtlety has to do with the concept of "planetary affinity," the idea that each planets is "friendly" to a number of other planets and either unfriendly or neutral to certain others. The designations for these in Lilly's work seem rather inconsistent, so I'm using the system provided by Vedic Astrology. The Golden Dawn material says to look at the affinity of two planets (the planet ruling the question and any other) that are in "aspect" as described above and decide whether the other planet exerts a beneficial or detrimental effect on the ruling planet. This is fairly basic astrology; the only difficulty I have is that in the Vedic system any two planets are not necessarily in a "reciprocal" relationship (e.g. Sol may be neutral to Mercury, but Mercury "likes" Sol) such that there is only a one-way affinity. As I see it, since the goal is to determine what modifies the nature of the ruling planet, I will always consider the affinity of the other planet for the ruling planet as the determinant if the relationship is non-reciprocal, rather than the other way around. This seems to make sense since it's an indicator of the level of cooperation to be expected of the other planet in supporting the ruler of the question. In the above example, it's arguably more revealing to know that Mercury in its supporting role "likes" the Sun than that Sol is indifferent to Mercury.

Does anyone use these practices? If so, do you have another source that gives more detail than the GD documents?

Hmm yes the aspects. All the books I have come accross that mentions them seem to place little emphasis on them and limit their use to either the first house or the house of the quesited which seems quite a limited way to use them (to me anyway) as certain questions will always provide a negative result whilst others will always provide a positive result according to the aspects anyway. I have made my own slight modifications to my readings when applying the aspects to a chart. In my readings I tend to give the aspects more of a free reign. So if a figure appears twice or more in a chart then I will check the amount of houses between them to see if the two (or more) figures have a sextile , square, etc relationship and this tells me that although a figure passes to another house, if that is a good thing or bad thing. I also apply this method if a planet appears twice or more in a chart. Also I check neighbouring houses for conjuctions and oppositions in the same way. Also if two opposing figures appear in a chart I use the opposition aspect. eg Via is the opposite of Populus, conjunctio is the opposite of carcer, fortuna minor is the opposite of fortuna major,amissio is the opposite of aquisitio,tristitia is the opposite of cauda draconis, laetitia is the opposite of caput draconis, ruebus is the opposite of puella and albus the opposite of puer. These oppositites apply to the elemantal make up of the figures depending on which line has one or two dots.

blessings

crystal

 

[crystal dawn]

Terrestrial Astrology - Divination by Geomancy by Stephen Skinner has been reissued and I believe the reissued version is called Geomancy - Theory and Practice by Stephen Skinner according to his website anyway.

blessings

crystal