Puzzling the CharlesV1/Griggoneur Yet Again!

[Huck]

Chess names

"Roch, pedites, regina, senex, eques, insuper et rex,
Conflictus vocat edictus vos Martis ad ictus!
Vox sonat in Rama: «Trahe tost, capra, concine, clama!»
Victus ab hoste gemat, qui dum fit «Schach roch» + et hie mat."

http://www.hs-augsburg.de/~harsch/Chronologia/Lspost13/CarminaBurana/bur_cpo2.html


Seems to be an older chess reference from Carmina burana. "Senex "the old" ... in other word "Father Time" ... seems to be an older name for the bishop.

Pedites = pawns (?), but what is insuper then (?)

But also there is:
bishop, or al-fil, or alfiere, or fil, or fol, or fou, or pil (chess).

 

[Rosanne]

I have just gone and got a library book about the history of Chess- so I can't give you any discussion/debate at this point Huck- I have no idea.
From a point of view of images alone and matching Horizontally and vertically- it is difficult to see it as Chess.
I have made Morgante a knight for the negative as he has Donkey ears
I have made The world card The Star- it seems to me the only one that can fulfill that space.
All the little people cards are at one side and the classic figures on the other.
adviser to the Pope is Death (Hehehe) and the The Emperor is Hanged Man who is below Justice. Remember this is only image directed! Don't use any chess debate on me yet
So my friend I have this order for the Chess Deck...... I am not happy, but I will play along until I can think of a better one (I liked the Gift giving Cards myself )

Pawns: Sun/Moon/World(star)/Lovers/Strength/Justice/Temperance/Hermit(Time is a Virtue :wink: )
Court:
Judgement/Chariot/Death/Pope/Emperor/HangedMan/Morgante/Tower.

Now this looks more balanced than yours visually, though why for heavens sake would the Cardinal Virtues look bigger than the Theological ones ?
The limits of our lives- God's Judgement and the City walls are the Castles/Rooks
Morgante and Lorenzo are the Knights.
Death and Traitor are the Advisers/Bishops
Mind you Death, could be Prudentia also, but I like him next to the Pope!

Maybe they played Cat and Mouse Chess like I did to learn with my Grandfather- Half a board, or only one side, 4 pawns Rook Knight Bishop and King? I still only think one sided in Chess and get wiped out from my right.
It is not a Tarot deck in my eyes.
~Rosanne

 

[Huck]

We've a farspread chess iconography in 14th century. 16 figures, the pawns are presented by professions. This model is very stable and is still living in ca. 1480, for instance in Germany.

That's a chess-pawn, a presentation of a profession.

We've a French text, the "echecs amoureux", a poem (anonymous author) ca. 1370

This was enlarged ca. 1398 by Evrart de Conty to a sort of encyclopedia, where he treats the spheres, the Muses, the artes and a lot of stuff. In the final scene of this book the author plays with a women the game of chess. Both have allegoric pieces of chess, somehow figures of the Roman de la Rose. The man has 16 pieces, the woman has 16 other pieces. And there is a series with 16 gods - how these refered to the 16 pieces of chess, stayed a riddle, at least to us.

These gods have been later (in 15th century) iconographically presented in the text, at least there are three versions with pictures.

The god Mars


In 1418 Poggio Bracciolini, a secretary of popes and writer of a lot of stuff, came together with the new pope Martin from Constance, visiting first Milan and Filippo Maria Visconti. In Constance he used his time to detect writings and manuscripts, which were north of the Alps and unknown in Italy. Beside others he found a text of Manilius, in which Manilius reported about the system of the 12 Olympian gods and combined them with a system of the zodiac. It's not reported, if Filippo Maria Visconti got his nose on this object, but its plausible, as the work of Poggio was variously discussed.

Between 1418 - 1425 Filippo Maria Visconti then commissioned the
Michelino Tarot. It contained 16 gods as the chess-version of Edvart da Conty, but it differed in the figures. It contained the 12 Olympian gods as the the Manilius text and they formed the 12 highest trumps. But Filippo Maria added figures, partly from the Trionfi of Petrarca and partly from Petrarca's interpretation of Ovid's Metamorphoses.

http://trionfi.com/0/b/71/

(the motif of Daphne was chosen by the descendant of Filippo Maria, Galeazzo Maria to present himself and his bride Bona of Savoyen; the figure of Daphne appears in the deck)

In 1441 (likely) we have the Cary-Yale and it has 16 cards per suit. From his trump-series 11 trumps survived. It's possible (better likely), that this deck had 16 trumps and that these were arranged according a sophisticated chess-interpretation.


In ca. 1463 (likely) we've another deck surviving, the Charles VI. More or less only the trump series survived. It was shown, that this might be a complete trump version.

A 22-special-cards version of Trionfi card till this date can't be proven. We know, that another version of Trionfi decks was used, that likely had 5x14 cards. There are three pieces of evidence for it, the note of 1.1.1441, the 14 trumps of the Bembo deck and the note 1457 in Ferrara.

In 1469 the Palazzo-Schifanoia pictures were started. They were made according the order of Manilius.

Chess were used - at least in Germany - ca. 1470 contemporary as a motif in literature about good marriage - the right side shows the bad example. This use had similar aspects as the trionfi cards, which also played an erotical role.

 

[Rosanne]

Further to these cards been about Processional life, rather than Chess etc here is an except from a dissertation of Elizabeth Tobey 2005 on the Palio Races etc.

In 1997, to commemorate the bicentennial of the founding of the Society of San Giovanni Battista, a multidisciplinary collection of essays appeared in Florence, edited by Paolo Pastori.
These illustrate, among other things, the cart carrying the palio banner.
Pastori’s essay includes discussion of the potenze, working-class groups of
Florentine citizens who participated in the Festival of San Giovanni Battista and other religious festivals. The potenze, whose existence
dates back to the reign of the Duke of Athens in the mid-fourteenth century, played a major role in the San Giovanni Battista festival. Each potenza elected a mock court headed by an Imperatore (Emperor) or Re (King), and constructed elaborate platforms from which to view the processions and palio race. Members of the nobility and ruling class were invited to watch the race from these platforms. At times the Medici Grand Dukes gave money to the potenze to organize parades and mock battles. The potenze also
commissioned tabernacoli, the religious shrines still found on street corners throughout the city.

The Potenza were the Artisan guilds (for example the wool guild or silk) who were in one of the 16 Gondafons or districts of Florence. They made the Banners, did the plays and jests etc....

 

[Huck]

.. well, it's always important, when a custom started. I would assume - just not knowing it - , that these mocking organizations started maybe 1480/1490, with some existence before, but not too much.

The feast of fools was prohibited in 1445 with Eugen - this was a new-years story or in the winter time at least ... we don't know, if the feast of Fools was relevant for Italy still. Stronger developments of Carnival seem to come up with Pope Paul II in the 60's. There were things before, but it's a question, how extensive these were. Italy had war about 30 years in the first half of 15th century.

 

[Rosanne]

In 1439 A Greek who was at the Council of Florence observed the Cerri (non mechanical as there were lads inside manually turning the figures in the cart) and Giants on Stilts.
In 1454 Matteo Palmieri speaks of the the floats (edifizi).
These came from the codice manuscripts in the Florence archives about the Sangiovanni Feast Festivals
I was under the impression that a ban on these floats and secular amusement, was for the Eve of the San Giovanni feast and the procession on the day itself; as that was the day the that tribute was made to the Church. The Pallio was held before the feast day to keep the feast day Holy and not profane. I thought that Savonorola called for the cancellation of all festivities late in the 1400's- especially the secular ones, but they were re instated in 1497.
There is also a book called Le Feste per San Giovanni by Pietro Gori that is quite detailed apparently (in French) and mentions the edifizi from 1440. It is specifically about the San Giovanni Feast festivals historically. I have not sighted this book- nor is my French very good- but I find it hard to imagine he would have had much to write about if they were not been held (The Races/Parades/Plays etc.)
I thought the Feast of Fools was a Christmas time festival?
~Rosanne

 

[Rosanne]

Yay I have some understanding now and why we think Triumphs were the reason for the cards; also why The Duke of Athens had anything to with these cards.
Walter of Briennne was the Duke of Athens and was made Signore of Florence from1326- 1336 by request of the merchants. He became known as the Tyrant of Florence because he was so despotic and cruel. He imposed Taxes and rules that were hard on the same merchants that requested him as Signore. He was finally driven out of Florence about the time of the San Giovanni Feast and all its celebrations. About the time of San Giovanni Feast there was an historic connections to the good and bad things that happen to Florentines- so the feast was to offer thanks or to pray for things to change and they used an age old Roman idea of Triumphal carriages called carroccio (later edifizi)
Here is an excerpt from Vallani's in Nerida Newbigin's essay/dissertation on the Florentine Festa of St John the Baptist.

And note that the carroccio of the Commune and people of Florence was a four-wheeled cart all painted bright red, and to it were fixed two tall red poles, from which flew the great standard with the arms of the Commune, half white and half red, which is still displayed today in San Giovanni; and it was drawn by a great pair of oxen, caparisoned in red, kept just for that purpose, and stabled in the hospital in Borgo Pinti and their driver was a
freeman of the city. This carroccio was used by our forebears for triumph and dignity; and when they went to battle, the neighbouring counts and knights brought it forth from the Opera di San Giovanni and took it into the Piazza del Mercato Nuovo, and positioned it on a spot there, where there is still a stone engraved with a carroccio, they commended it to the people. The Popolani drove it into battle and the best and strongest and most valiant Popolani foot soldiers in the city were always detailed to guard it; and all the strength of the people was concentrated in it. And when an army was being raised, a month before they had to leave, they placed a bell in the arch at Por Santa Maria, at the end of the Mercato Nuovo, and that was rung continuously day and night, as ostentatious challenge to the enemy camp that was to be attacked. And some called it the Martinella and others called it the Asses’ Bell. And when the Florentine army set out, the bell was taken down from the
arch and placed on a wooden scaffold on a cart, and the army was led by its sound. On these two ceremonies, of the carroccio and the bell, the noble pride in battle of the people of old, our forbears, rested.

Note it was called the Trumpeter or the Asses Bell.
Now the final straw for the Duke of Athens was when he did a despicable deed. A fellow from the wool gild- a freeman- spoke out about his taxes and the Duke had his tongue cut out and put on a lance by one of the soldiers guarding the carroccio and lead the 'traitor' hung upside down on the wagon through the streets. He later died from his injuries. This made the people very mad and angry as it showed they could not ever speak up- so there was a revolution and they ran the Duke out of town. That is the story briefly. The processions of the carrioccio became larger and larger as the years went by- but that was their beginning. It is interesting after finding this out to look at the Noblet Hanged Man. The portents and Victories aspect is interesting because the year before the plague hit Florence the Carroccio fell over and the people thought it was a sign of disaster coming. It was.
~Rosanne

 

[Rosanne]

I should add I get one of my children who work for the Education Office of Education to search on University links (she reviews papers on education from the Universities around the world in English that apply to education. Italy is one country that has a huge reputation for a particular curriculum of early childhood education) The essays and papers of Masters in Renaissance History are often particular as I get to read them as my daughter forwards them on to me- So they are a rich source for information about the cards through indirect means. I have not read any that are particular to Tarot or cards- but the side interests are fascinating in regards to Tarot and related subjects. I would encourage anyone with access to University libraries, to search for the Essays and Dissertations as they are concentrated pieces of information. Many are now on the web apparently; and many are also in English, which has been marvelous for me. One paper in particular on the Pallium or banners of the parades has been a rich resource. The paper I cited above is called "Laudatio and History: Contextualizing the Florentine Festa of St John The Baptist" by Nerida Newbigin and was written in 2007. There is another paper about Walter of Brienne and his influence from 10 years as Signore of Florence. It talks about how This Duke of Athens had a lasting impression on the public life in Italy and France. It has no signature that I can quote so I have been reluctant to post excerpts here- it seems not quite right somehow. Anyways these papers should be more investigated for the origins of Tarot.

Intil 1343, the turbulent character of Italy's political life, and the threat posed to Florence by its local rivals Pisa and Lucca, led the Florentines to modify their republican regime in favour of a succession of powerful Lords or Signori.

The last one was this despotic Walter of Brienne- and for the next hundred years the city was ruled by an oligarchy head by the Albizzi family. The only time the Feast Parades and races stopped was in 1378 when there was a cloth workers strike or revolution. Then in 1434 Cosimo Medici seized power, and the parades become more extravagant and secular- so they were divided among the days around the Feast day to keep that day Holy. The 30 years of wars did not seem to stop these events. A few times they were canceled due to weather- but in general, because they were symbolic of the Power of Florence they were maintained. Interestingly Lorenzo Medici took to wearing the same red of the Carracchio to link the two events together.
There are some descriptions of what was on some of the floats/Carracchio/edifizi in 1422. Here is one...

The play of the Last Judgement: and then came another edificio of Judgement day, and Christ was way uip in the air and there were tombs below. As soon as the Trumpet sounded, lots of people emerged, and did all the words and gestures that had been written, and it was a piteous thiing, even though it made people laugh because there were some who did not want to enter Hell (on the next float) and there was a big battle. Then the righteous went to paradise that St Paeter opened up (another float). Then came the Three Kings on Horses, richly adorned with great retinues, and the Queens all adorned in the latest fashions- then another adificio on which were three dead Kings and a Hermit who lived in a cell, and those dead Kings talked to the living ones, and they were converted and it was a beautiful thing...

Apparently the last float usually was the Triumph of Death called Del Vivo e del Morte and as it passed the people called out "Agite penitentiam" It had become so expensive and extravagant that it is possible it was reformed in 1453 so the procession could be more devout, and the floats procession became another day. It was hard to enforce because some communes refused to pay their tributes or display the relics etc.
So it continued with adjustment it seems. There were interruption between 1478 and 1488 and again after the death of Lorezo Medici, and in the 1560's on there was a search for a return to to the type of Parades of the 1450's and so they found documents that showed how it all had been done.
Looks like these cards to me!
~Rosanne

 

[Rosanne]

Martinella means little Hammer and is a bell.

Le Pendu said this was a good subject for discussion some few posts back.
Obviously not.
~Rosanne

 

[Debra]

Well, how about if I just watch, Rosanne? I'm not thinking very clearly but I do like the images and it seems you're triangulating on something. I'm not sure what has set you in this direction but I am interested in the train of thought even though I haven't a timetable for the ride...