thinbuddha
Share your view any or all of the elements. I'm not completely "getting" them a the moment (especially air).
Fire, Water, Air, Earth
pleroma
i share some of your confusion thinbuddha. i have difficulty with the correspondences of the elements to suits. cups-water and pentacles-earth make a lot of sense to me but for some reason i cannot fully accept wands-fire and swords-air. Part of my difficulty lies in not fully understanding what air and fire mean. It seems that according to a lot of tarot literature swords represent reason and are aligned with the element of air. However, many of those same books say that wands represent thought in some way and are aligned with fire instead. I work with the understanding that wands are about doing, dynamic creative forces, while fire is more about sheer force of intellect and is a more ego-driven/ego-centered force. But i could really use some major clarification on these points so any wisdom from community members would be of great help to me as well.
magpie9
Lemmie see here.....OK. Cups are water and deep emotion and the unconscious mind.They are very emotional and go from one emotion to another very quickly and easily. They are sensitive and psychic and deeply spiritual, The Little Flower was a cup. They are dreamers and healers who heal by taking the sickness into themselves. As a rule they need protection, or at least seem to.
Pentacles are earth and groundedness and physical manifestation and what we can pick up and touch. Also deep attachments to family, community and the land. They have a very solid moral sense and will do "what's right" no matter what. What they believe in, they bring into manifestation. Mother Theresa was a pentacle.
Wands are on fire. They are swift and intense and moving all the time. They are ideas and purpose and ideals. They are creativity that cannot be contained but must express itself, they are passion that cannot be quenched, except by becoming manifest.They are impulsive. They are the kind of spirituality that some saints and martyrs had--Joan of Arc was one. they do not understand the phrase, " It can't be done."
Swords are Air. They are thought and lofty ideals. They are exact, colorless communications. They are logic in practical form. They are superego. They do not understand deep passions, or lost causes. They are the engineers of tarot, with plans and proposals and no concept of why someone would consider a piece of land sacred. They do understand "mine." the have high standards for themselves and those who they consider theirs. they do not express emotion well or easily. they feel they are superior to the other suits, and consider themselves the natural rulers of the other suits. Their wounds do not heal because they are in denial about being wounded. That's why the sad and hurting cards in this suit are so deeply painful. their ends justify their means. They are amoral.
Hope this helps!
Pentacles are earth and groundedness and physical manifestation and what we can pick up and touch. Also deep attachments to family, community and the land. They have a very solid moral sense and will do "what's right" no matter what. What they believe in, they bring into manifestation. Mother Theresa was a pentacle.
Wands are on fire. They are swift and intense and moving all the time. They are ideas and purpose and ideals. They are creativity that cannot be contained but must express itself, they are passion that cannot be quenched, except by becoming manifest.They are impulsive. They are the kind of spirituality that some saints and martyrs had--Joan of Arc was one. they do not understand the phrase, " It can't be done."
Swords are Air. They are thought and lofty ideals. They are exact, colorless communications. They are logic in practical form. They are superego. They do not understand deep passions, or lost causes. They are the engineers of tarot, with plans and proposals and no concept of why someone would consider a piece of land sacred. They do understand "mine." the have high standards for themselves and those who they consider theirs. they do not express emotion well or easily. they feel they are superior to the other suits, and consider themselves the natural rulers of the other suits. Their wounds do not heal because they are in denial about being wounded. That's why the sad and hurting cards in this suit are so deeply painful. their ends justify their means. They are amoral.
Hope this helps!
star-lover
magpie9 said:. That's why the sad and hurting cards in this suit are so deeply painful. their ends justify their means. They are amoral.
Hope this helps!
LOL immoral swords/air element? wouldn't go as far as that - in fact i would say exact opposite - because they are moral that's what gets them in such a fix much of the time
Anathematically
The element/suit relationship is confusing because the link is tenuous, at best.
Sure, there is some relation involving the number 4 (four suits, four elements), but so far as I can tell the association is relatively arbitrary; something someone like Eteilla or Levi would have cooked up because he saw two or three similarities, completely disregarding the evidence that suggested they have nothing to do with each other.
Tarot didn't even exist during the time of the pythagorean elements.
Sure, there is some relation involving the number 4 (four suits, four elements), but so far as I can tell the association is relatively arbitrary; something someone like Eteilla or Levi would have cooked up because he saw two or three similarities, completely disregarding the evidence that suggested they have nothing to do with each other.
Tarot didn't even exist during the time of the pythagorean elements.
tink27
Hi thinbuddha,
I'm very new, and still learning to communicate with such insightful people.
I see air signs as mentally active people whose focus is always towards knowledge. Air signs need verbal contact and love to learn new knowledge. They play with ideas to keep their minds alive.
There is nothing more painful for an air sign than no communication or where dishonesty or truth has been tainted or colored. Air signs fear of getting stuck in too much emotion. In relationships they can appear cold, unconcerned and unfeeling. They also have a tendency to look for escape routes when emotional levels are high.
Air signs have an inherent understanding of duality and seek to find the balance between opposites, to discover the connection between them.
Hmm still thinking....
tink
I'm very new, and still learning to communicate with such insightful people.
I see air signs as mentally active people whose focus is always towards knowledge. Air signs need verbal contact and love to learn new knowledge. They play with ideas to keep their minds alive.
There is nothing more painful for an air sign than no communication or where dishonesty or truth has been tainted or colored. Air signs fear of getting stuck in too much emotion. In relationships they can appear cold, unconcerned and unfeeling. They also have a tendency to look for escape routes when emotional levels are high.
Air signs have an inherent understanding of duality and seek to find the balance between opposites, to discover the connection between them.
Hmm still thinking....
tink
thinbuddha
magpie9 said:
OK- not a bad rundown of what I already know, so let me get a little more specific about what I mean.
I've been using the "Opening of the Key Spread". When doing this spread, you arrange the entire deck into 4 piles, and then use the pile that relates to the question. For example, if the question was about love, you would use the water pile for the answer. If the question was about work, you would use the earth pile......
If the question was about (insert situation here) you would use the Air/Fire pile.
I honestly can't see the question that would relate to the air pile (about spirituality?). And I'm not entirely sure about the fire pile- I suppose that if the question were about a conflict...... but what else?
tink27
I find Air prefers to move quickly along the surface, rather than explore too deeply.
They may be curious about univerals laws and of cause and effect.
tink
They may be curious about univerals laws and of cause and effect.
tink
thinbuddha
Anathematically said:
If you accept that taropt has a connection to qaballa, then you have to accept the ties between qaballa and the elements. If you don't buy the relationship, it sure makes reading cards easier, but to me the results lack nuance (though your rusults may vary).
Anathematically
I don't see any Kabbalic relationships, either.thinbuddha said:
My interpretations of the cards come from two or three primary sources:
1.) The numerological representations
2.) The myths, lores and legends behind the cards
3.) The story that the cards tell.
