Fire, Water, Air, Earth

[kwaw]

Now you're going to get confused because you'll soon find that everyone has their own personal correspondences.

Sulis xx

Yep.

long suits:
'male' - Batons - fire - east
'female' - Epees - water - north

short or round suits:
'male' - Cups - air - west
'female' - Deniers - Earth - south.

Kwaw

 

[Sophie]

Kwaw - cups are male in your system? Have you ever seen a uterus?

 

[Sulis]

I'm not completely "getting" them a the moment (especially air).

Here's what I think about air.

Air is the fastest moving and least dense element. It's all around us, absolutely essential for life (as are all the elements but I think air and water are the most obviously essential elements). Air is the element that we can do without for the least amount of time. A person can survive hours without water, days without food but only minutes without air. Air is always moving and it is invisible (the only element that is).
We 'see' air from the effect it has on the things around us - fluttering leaves in a breeze, a banging door.
Air is the first element we take into our bodies when we are born - it signifies beginnings and fresh ideas.
Air is classed as male, it's direction is East, it's time is dawn, it's season is spring.
Colours that represent the element of air are yellow, light blue and clear violet.
The elemental creatures of air are sylphs.
Air rules the realm of ideas, communication, logical thought that is detatched or apart from emotion or action.
Air is cleansing - incense smoke is often used to cleanse magical spaces.
To experience the cleansing effects of air, stand outside, preferably high up, on a windy day - you'll feel revitalised, fresh and alive -as if the cobwebs have been blown from your head and mind.

You may find it helpful to do an elemental meditation:
Light some incense - a light, sharp incense is best - something like lavender.
Sit quietly, breathing deeply, watch the smoke as it rises and spirals, making shapes.
Try fanning the smoke with your hand or with a feather.
If you are using a feather, try wafting it over your body, about 6 inches away from you -feel your aura being cleansed as you do this. Visualise the cares and worries of the day being stroked away from you.
Feel cleansed.
As you sit there, concentrate on your breath.
Feel the cool, clean air as it enters your nostrils, imagine it filling your lungs.
Make sure you are sitting up straight and expand your chest properly.
Feel the air filling up your lungs, feel your abdomen expanding as you inhale.
Now concentrate on the out-breath.
Gather up lthe worries or turmoils of the day.
Concentrate them into the breath and breathe them out.
Feel lighter.

Hope that's helped a bit.

Love Sulis xx

 

[FearfulSymmetry]

Now you're going to get confused because you'll soon find that everyone has their own personal correspondences.

I use the same correspondences with tarot as I do with magic.

To me Air is always the beginning:

1. Air - East - beginnings, dawn, spring
2. Fire - South - middle, noon, summer
3. Water - West, harvest, evening, autumn
4. Pentacles - North, endings, manifestation, night, winter.

Sulis xx

You're right LOL Everyone has their own way for sure. Also for the seasons and cardinal directions! BTW the last thing I wrote was supposed to make a triangle but when it posted it got squished, oh well.

Really, these things flow in and out of each other and it is hard to force them into a linear pattern. If you must then pick a way that makes the most sense to you and stick with it. I know for me I have a huge amount of correspondences so I adjust so it all makes sense to me.

You know, if we go by the order of the major arcana it would be:

1. Air - Magician
2. Water - High Priestess
3. Earth - Empress
4. Fire - Emperor

(which mucks with some of the other stuff I just wrote about the elements)
Sometimes its valuable to accept a paradox LOL

 

[Asenath]

OK- not a bad rundown of what I already know, so let me get a little more specific about what I mean.

I've been using the "Opening of the Key Spread". When doing this spread, you arrange the entire deck into 4 piles, and then use the pile that relates to the question. For example, if the question was about love, you would use the water pile for the answer. If the question was about work, you would use the earth pile......

If the question was about (insert situation here) you would use the Air/Fire pile.

I honestly can't see the question that would relate to the air pile (about spirituality?). And I'm not entirely sure about the fire pile- I suppose that if the question were about a conflict...... but what else?

WANDS/FIRE - Work (to be done), actions, etc. "What steps do I need to take to get X done?"
COINS/EARTH - Well-being (things already established), job/career, health, etc. "What do I need to know about the neighbourhood that I'm thinking of moving into?"
CUPS/WATER - Love, emotions, relationships, inner-self, etc. "How can I improve my relationship with so-and-so?"
SWORDS/AIR - Thoughts, ideas, concepts, musings, plans, etc."What should I expect if I follow through with this idea/plan/thought?"


Maybe???

 

[kwaw]

Kwaw - cups are male in your system? Have you ever seen a uterus?

Kwaw shudders: uhh,. you think I go around cutting up woman's bodies or something. Cause i've never seen a uterus, just a few simplified diagrams of such from sex education lessons when at school too long ago to bear reporting. Did they have sex education in the renaissance? Do the diagrams in their sex education manuals of a uterus look like the tarot cups?

Cup of benedictions, of blessings, containing wine, that is the life or spirit of Christ [ruach=air]. You never seen the cup with the dove, symbol of ruach/spiritus [air/breathe/spirit/life]?

Swords=water!? Why not? Or are you saying Freudian style because they are longer that wide they are a phallic symbol? Perhaps, to a man with a vitamin E deficiency! You seen them curved Marseille swords? Forming a mulititude of Vesica Pisca? Taken of the borders and put them in a pattern [a series of circles-I believe jmd provided a link to this somewhere]. I bet your medieval and renaissance common person would have seen in the shape of the Vesica Piscas a reference to the female anatomy [to a part that could be seen] than the shape of a cup to a uterus [which cannot, unless our originators of tarot were anatomists], but possibly I am wrong. Who cares, attribute what element you want I say, nobodies business but our own.

Kwaw

 

[FearfulSymmetry]

You never seen the cup with the dove, symbol of ruach/spiritus [air/breathe/spirit/life]?

Heh heh, I think that symbol means the spirit of God (the dove) descending into the *uterus* of Mary (the cup). Immaculate conception.

I can say this much, the uterus has been symbolized as a cup like structure as far back as the ancient egyptians and is the rounded part of the ankh symbol, the stem being the penis.

 

[FearfulSymmetry]

Another thing,
male and female, uterus and penis (check out the Hindu concepts of yoni and lingham), they are metaphors for what gives and what recieves, what is positive and negative.

It only matters as far as supporting the images in the cards. For example I have a hard time using a deck which is Wands/Air because the symbolism on the card doesn't work with my personal correspondences. If you use pips with little extraneous symbolism it probably doesn't matter much at all.

 

[kwaw]

Heh heh, I think that symbol means the spirit of God (the dove) descending into the *uterus* of Mary (the cup). Immaculate conception.

Not so different from what I said re: cup of benedictions, of blessings, containing wine, that is the life or spirit of Christ [ruach], the uterus as vessel of the holy spirit [=ruach=air], the holy womb of the divine son [=vau=air].

I can say this much, the uterus has been symbolized as a cup like structure as far back as the ancient egyptians and is the rounded part of the ankh symbol, the stem being the penis.

Or the stem the 'length' of the penis, the round part the glans. In some systems the glans is considered the 'feminine' part of the penis; and this is connected in some kabbalisitic traditions with the rite of circumcision, the glans is called the 'aterah' or crown, which is another name also for Malkuth. The branches of the ace of swords then 'may' be thought of as the cut foreskin and/or the labial lips, [or just a couple of branches, laurel and palm fronds of course having a whole range of symbolic meanings]. Whatever your elemental attributions, that's fine with me, my point is not to argue a particular set, but to agree with previous poster that there are many various attributions. It is up to the poster to decide their own, I think it is relevant though to understand from the start that there are a variety, with their own particular reasonings. It is perfectly possible to symbolically link any of the suits with any of the elements.

Kwaw

 

[sharpchick]

Technically there is only 3 elements, Fire, Water, and Air, Earth is a combination of the first

Actually I'd say there were five elements - air, earth, water, fire and spirit - the last being represented by the trumps.