Is the Hierophant a Dictator?

[firemaiden]

Okay, but should our interpretations of tarot cards really be about our own own reactions and prejudices against one sex, or one historical institution or another? Or are they more flexible than that - as universal archetypes.

 

[Umbrae]

When I was 17 a Baptist minister homosexually raped me. I don’t hate men. I don't hate homosexuals. I don’t confuse him with either the Pope or the Hierophant.

It would be a mistake to confuse a rapist (regardless of gender) with Ghandi.

Now Ghandi was a Hierophant. And a Hermit. And to some a Devil. To some a Tower. To some a Magician, a High Priestess and an Empress. Ghandi was a Star and I’ll bet he had his Moon moments…

And he changed the world.

Mother Theresa was a Hierophant And a Hermit. And to some a Devil. To some a Tower. To some a Magician, a High Priestess and an Empress. Mother Theresa was a Star and I’ll bet she had her Moon moments…

Genderless those two are because they (being true Hierophants) lived their talk, they climbed above others – and stood tall when helping others…and that IS the message of the Hierophant.

Not hatred, not despair, not indifference, and not spiritual, mental or emotional violence.

Yeah – Ghandi as the Hierophant. I like that. …and his vision, his dream – and his actions were all prophetic…

 

[TemperanceAngel]

But surely there is more then one side to The Hierophant?
The Hierophant cannot be an amazing metaphor all the time....

 

[Elven]

If the focus here is on the Heirophant - then there is enough information and breadth in this card to write a book on it in itself - without reverting to other cards as comparatives. It does not mean that it will not 'bleed' into other areas of interpreation which are in other cards - but it is focussing specifically on an aspect from which it encompasses a mass of the whole and the part of the meaning intended represented by the Hierophant.

An example of some of the aspect of the Hierophant I can see in a very recent (yesterday) response from a 'person of power and position - relating to belief which are Spiritualy based'. His response to a bombing which killed over 200 people, to those families which were effected by the deaths of their kin, he said that that should understand that it was meant to be.

From some people he is seen as a Leader - a speaker for God - to others he is seen as a murderer and tyrant. A Dictator? Yes in aspect, as he dictates to others his views, his word, a mediator for his 'God'. He carries this with conviction, and truely believes, himself, that what he relates is the truth. He has committed his mind body and Soul to his teachings and his God. The responsibility of the deaths of people are justified - without doubt - and he will/has been 'punished' on earth for his part in the actions, but to him, he will be rewarded by his God for being devoted. There are those who venemously stand beside him as much as those who are venemously against him. Then there are the impartial - those who have no attatchment to the situation, or are emotionally distant or 'unimpressed' by the person and the situtation.

There is as much information 'infront' of the Hierophant as there is beyond the meaning of the card.

The word commitment comes to mind. Who we follow, Why we follow, Spiritual Law, Devotion, a threshold to another level, dependance, trust, many things in which we relate as qualities, possibly positive (the Institution), possibly negative (The Institution) an initiation or right to enter a realm whereby we can find reliance from the teachings (laws) of others. Whether this is right or wrong has little consequence to anyone but the questioner, as it is only in relevance to their position - emotionally, mentally spiritually. But when the card appears I would be reassessing decisions which mould my beliefs which in turn mould my actions. Who and what am I letting my responsibility lean upon. Who will I have to defend - myself and my beliefs? my actions - my trust - my faith?



Just some thoughts

Blessings
Elven x

 

[firecatpickles]

There are both positives and negatives to each card, and these positives and negatives change in perception with each individual person and, with that very individual, over time.

Though I have no real horror story concerning those entrusted with the power of a leading "clerical" official, I will say that institutionally I am very distrustful of the Hierophant, because of this yen-yang, this positive-negative relationship He has within Himself. I was taught to love-hate myself. That I was male-female because of my feelings. That I was a sinner-saint because of my talents, etc.

I am coming to realize, through this enlightening discussion, that the Hierophant may be the male force extant in The High Priestess. There is duality here. He is powerful, yet weak in the eyes of God. He is the creator-destroyer. He is the lover-hater. He is the lover-rapist. He is the prophet-liar. I could go on-and-on.

KK

 

[Umbrae]

…that the Hierophant may be the male force extant in The High Priestess. There is duality here. He is powerful, yet weak in the eyes of God. He is the creator-destroyer. He is the lover-hater. He is the lover-rapist. He is the prophet-liar. I could go on-and-on.

No no no no no…there is a progression, an order, the High Priestess is numbered II for a reason…as the Hierophant is numbered V for a reason…they are very separate. But most importantly…a prophet-liar, Lover-Hater?

No.

Comparing a Hierophant to somebody who blows up, kills murders and rapes? Leave bombing out of this.

That is not a Hierophant. Not even close. And we are still ‘Gender’ fixated.

Okay try this…look at your Hierophant. See how he’s dressed like he could dress in 1500?

Well it’s 2006. He couldn’t get a drink in London dressed like that (lol)…

The term Hierophant was used to move the thought process away from the Church, and place it into a more spiritual realm – but here we are a hundred years later still mixing it with politics and religion.

The Hierophant is not about Politics, Religion, or Gender identification. The Hierophant is about the spiritual and the community.

 

[firecatpickles]

there is a progression, an order...

Whose progression? RWS? TdM? Minchiate? Visconti? Yours? Half of us fail to agree as to where the Fool should be, at the end or the beginning.

KK

 

[Thirteen]

Okay, but should our interpretations of tarot cards really be about our own own reactions and prejudices against one sex, or one historical institution or another? Or are they more flexible than that - as universal archetypes.

What we SHOULD do and what we CAN do are often two different things. Our own reactions to ANYTHING inform our lives, influence our readings, influence just about everything. We can and should do our best to escape prejudices, to be neutral--but neutrality isn't, I think, what is best for our intuition, that gut reaction which sometimes makes us say, to a querent, "Something's wrong here...." or "You can trust this man..."

My point is simply that people WILL regard the Hierophant and Emperor as they regard powerful men. And that any wariness they feel towards them may be justified NOT by prejudice, but by the very real fact that anyone with power can really hurt them. It's not unreasonable to have some uncertainty about a person who can make your life miserable for a long time, who can threaten your future and your livlihood.

Example: Disney animation recently changed bosses. The old bosses restrained the animators. The animators never knew when their projects would be taken away and changed by the bosses. The animators had to always get notes, ask permission like children. They'd be given ideas and told to make them work, rather than allowed to come up with their own ideas. These were the bosses they slaved under for...my gosh, at least the last twenty years. They were miserable, uncreative, dishartened.

The new boss said, "You have complete oversight. It's all yours. We'll take a look together now and then, offer suggestions, but you can take them or leave them. You come up with the ideas." The animators are saying its like someone opened a window. They're relaxed, relieved and eager to work.

Twenty years. Twenty years of men in power abusing that power. The Fool can't do that sort of damage to you. The Magician might trick you, but rarely for twenty years. The Hermit probably won't hurt you for that long either. It takes an Emperor or a Hierophant to make the thing you love, the thing a whole community loves, a whole country loves, like their faith or their morals or values or careers, something miserable rather than something wonderful. And the Emperor and the Hierophant can make it that way for a long time. In the Hierophant's case, maybe forever.

So I'm not sure why it's so surprising or insightful or wrong or even prejudice to be wary of Emperor and Hierophant. Power, or people in power, are never, I think, to be taken lightly. And yes, we should be equally wary of Empress and High Priestess. We're not simply because the world with its prejudices doesn't usually give women the same leverage and chance to do damage as men...especially when it comes to spiritual leadership, which, 9 times out of 10 is male leadership.

Unless you want to talk about mothers, in which case, I'll happily concur that motherhood is in the exact same league. And in readings, I, at least, am as always cautious about discussing motherhood as I am bosses and ministers.

 

[Sophie]

Well it’s 2006. He couldn’t get a drink in London dressed like that (lol).

Depends which pub he goes to.

Recently I did a two-path reading. The Hierophant came up as directly opposed to The Magician. I had a penny-dropping moment, because I saw there that the Hierophant could be the whole forces of conservatism - for good or bad - of doing what is deemed by traditional morality to be the right thing. Whereas the Magician - he makes his world happen. He chooses which morality accords to his deep self and his conscience.

Depending on the circumstances, they can both be abusive, or both be a force for good. Only, very different.

Is the Hierophant a male - sure he is. But not necessarily a man. He is part of the "masculine" archetypes of the tarot, which can be found in women as well as in men - although in the case of leaders of institutions, as Thirteen said, it is more often found in men than in women. That's just a fact of life and history.

 

[Umbrae]

Comparing corporate America to spiritual growth is a mixing of metaphors designed to obfuscate and promote gender bias.

Comparing Michael Eisner to the Hierophant? Sorry, I have to call you out on that one – that’s freaking lame.