DarkElectric
I learn sooooo much from this particular section of AT. Thanks everybody, for the wisdom. J'appreciate.
When they want to "test" you
tarotbear
Umbrae -
The 'come to us' because they are doing what millions of people have done for millenia - sought out the soothsayer to say sooths for them.
After all, the average physican has 12 additional years of schooling; likewise a psychiatrist. People go through years of extra training, $$$ to get degrees and years of experience to help someone in their particular care field. Why should you believe any of them when you can go to 'that odd bookstore' and plunk down $25 and have some total stranger spread some cards and tell you all the answers you need to know?
The 'come to us' because they are doing what millions of people have done for millenia - sought out the soothsayer to say sooths for them.
After all, the average physican has 12 additional years of schooling; likewise a psychiatrist. People go through years of extra training, $$$ to get degrees and years of experience to help someone in their particular care field. Why should you believe any of them when you can go to 'that odd bookstore' and plunk down $25 and have some total stranger spread some cards and tell you all the answers you need to know?
Umbrae
Tarotbear...
He Shoots!!!
He Scores!!!
It's a Three-Pointer!!!
The crowd goes wild.
They come to us to get - what all those other guys cannot give them, with their degree's and their TV shows oh so special God's and La-Te-Da's...
They come to us.
He Shoots!!!
He Scores!!!
It's a Three-Pointer!!!
The crowd goes wild.
They come to us to get - what all those other guys cannot give them, with their degree's and their TV shows oh so special God's and La-Te-Da's...
They come to us.
DarkElectric
I can't really say sooths right. I lithp. 
tarotbear
DarkElectric said:I can't really say sooths right. I lithp.
You can't say 'sooths'? Try being a Suess-sayer!
LOL!!!!!Back to Umbrae's point -
Why do they come to us?
Some to laugh at us, some to get their jollies. Some to see 'if they really can' tell us something that will happen or come true.
Or is it because we DON'T have 12+ years of schooling, don't have degrees up the wazoo, TV shows (leaves Miss you-know-who out), or La-Te-Da's - they come to us because we appear to be human? They come to us because we offer them hope? They come to us because we look at the problem and it's causes and affects - without offering them the scientific 'silver bullet' that everyone else does?
Gardener
wow, it's fascinating to see the turns this conversation has taken. I think you are right, Umbrae, that the heart of the issue turns on the reason the querent has come have their cards read by us. Why this person arrived on our doorstep. Why this person is seeking insight through tarot cards, and why this person came to us and not someone else.
Good questions. I especially like tarotbear's suggestion that we are more accessible than someone like a doctor or a priest, who can seem to preach from a pedestal. We meet them in a place of equality.
Well, sometimes. I guess at other times, querents seek to put us on a pedestal - *you* are psychic, *I* am not. I think that for such a querent, mota's approach can be very meaningful. That querent might benefit from the suggestion that the gap between us can be bridged. Some of my querents do seem to be natural readers. Others, no way. It all depends on them, on who they are. (I guess I haven't done enough professional reading to see my clients as one mass - they're each different, still.)
To be pedantic for a moment, I'd like to return to my original dilemma, which I confess I still am not sure how to handle. The woman was not unfriendly, but she came in with a "secret" (her husband had died recently) and she wanted me to tell her that. She didn't think it was right that she had to tell me. And yes, I do trust the cards, but no, I didn't see that fact in the cards. I may not be the best reader around (in fact, I'm pretty sure I'm not). So how do I deal with someone who wants me to know something and won't tell me?
I think the best answer I've had so far comes from mota. That I try to connect with my client so that she WANTS to tell me the secret. I'll have to work on that...
Good questions. I especially like tarotbear's suggestion that we are more accessible than someone like a doctor or a priest, who can seem to preach from a pedestal. We meet them in a place of equality.
Well, sometimes. I guess at other times, querents seek to put us on a pedestal - *you* are psychic, *I* am not. I think that for such a querent, mota's approach can be very meaningful. That querent might benefit from the suggestion that the gap between us can be bridged. Some of my querents do seem to be natural readers. Others, no way. It all depends on them, on who they are. (I guess I haven't done enough professional reading to see my clients as one mass - they're each different, still.)
To be pedantic for a moment, I'd like to return to my original dilemma, which I confess I still am not sure how to handle. The woman was not unfriendly, but she came in with a "secret" (her husband had died recently) and she wanted me to tell her that. She didn't think it was right that she had to tell me. And yes, I do trust the cards, but no, I didn't see that fact in the cards. I may not be the best reader around (in fact, I'm pretty sure I'm not). So how do I deal with someone who wants me to know something and won't tell me?
I think the best answer I've had so far comes from mota. That I try to connect with my client so that she WANTS to tell me the secret. I'll have to work on that...
Chronata
Wow. This thread really has me thinking!
My dear Gardener...sounds like you are doing very well in this pro biz! You are handling all the early possible pitfalls with grace and integrity!
I had to think about what I usually do in those types of situations, where it's obvious that a client is testing me....
My usual response is just to say..."I will do a general reading for you." (90% of my readings are anyway...) and I follow with "There are probably things that you want to know...and it's a good possibility that they will come up in this reading...
"However, often when I read the cards ,they will reveal what you need to know...not neccessarily what you want to know."
And then I flash them a grin.
It very often takes the whole "testing" out of the equation, because the client has to now decide for themselves if their question was something that the universe really needed them to know! Heh.
And anyway...their secret question DOES usually come out in the reading after all...but maybe not quite the way they wanted it answered.....
But oh! Lark! your story made my heart flutter in sympathy! Last year I had an almost identical experience...a woman who was belligerant throughout the reading, and after admitting she wanted to see how psychic I was...she then fired off five questions about her future...stuff like "am I going to get married next year?" and "will I have children?"
I had just pretty much answered all those things already in my long 9 card spread for her (though not directly... but the answers were there...)
I didin't have the luxury of telling her she had to pay for another reading(brilliant, BTW!) because this was a party situation, and she wasn't paying anyway.
So I turned over the next five cards, and said...
"No"
"Possibly"
'Yes"
"No"
and "Magic 8 crystal ball is a bit hazy...ask again later"
Then I handed her a crystal as a nice parting gift and said "next" because there was a long line behind her!
She looked a bit bewildered.
Her friends thought it was very funny, and since they were listening in on the reading...they knew I had pretty much finished telling her everything I could tell her.
Later the hostess said that she complained about me...but no one was really sympathetic to her whining.
My dear Gardener...sounds like you are doing very well in this pro biz!
You are handling all the early possible pitfalls with grace and integrity!I had to think about what I usually do in those types of situations, where it's obvious that a client is testing me....
My usual response is just to say..."I will do a general reading for you." (90% of my readings are anyway...) and I follow with "There are probably things that you want to know...and it's a good possibility that they will come up in this reading...
"However, often when I read the cards ,they will reveal what you need to know...not neccessarily what you want to know."
And then I flash them a grin.
It very often takes the whole "testing" out of the equation, because the client has to now decide for themselves if their question was something that the universe really needed them to know! Heh.
And anyway...their secret question DOES usually come out in the reading after all...but maybe not quite the way they wanted it answered.....
But oh! Lark! your story made my heart flutter in sympathy! Last year I had an almost identical experience...a woman who was belligerant throughout the reading, and after admitting she wanted to see how psychic I was...she then fired off five questions about her future...stuff like "am I going to get married next year?" and "will I have children?"
I had just pretty much answered all those things already in my long 9 card spread for her (though not directly... but the answers were there...)
I didin't have the luxury of telling her she had to pay for another reading(brilliant, BTW!) because this was a party situation, and she wasn't paying anyway.
So I turned over the next five cards, and said...
"No"
"Possibly"
'Yes"
"No"
and "Magic 8 crystal ball is a bit hazy...ask again later"
Then I handed her a crystal as a nice parting gift and said "next" because there was a long line behind her!
She looked a bit bewildered.
Her friends thought it was very funny, and since they were listening in on the reading...they knew I had pretty much finished telling her everything I could tell her.
Later the hostess said that she complained about me...but no one was really sympathetic to her whining.
Alissa
You might try explaining the Tarot is a tool for people to discover what they *don't* know.
You might simply decline reading for someone in a situation where they set up you.
Would anyone walk into a doctor's office, knowing they're diabetic, and say, "Ok, I know what's wrong with me. Now why don't you tell me what's wrong?" just to test them?
Respect. To me, that's what it's about. If they don't show me the respect that I deserve, I don't give them my Gift of reading. They don't deserve it. I don't *care* if it's just ignorance that makes them believe what they do. I don't care. I don't care if they think I'm "right" or not. It's the Zen thing to me... let go of your need for their approval. I read cards. I don't read them so I can "prove" myself to anyone.
If you want a reading, let's sit.
If you want to play games, here's a quarter. Go to the video arcade.
I just don't have the patience with people who want to !@$% with me, no matter their "explanation" as to why they think they need to test me. Like I said above, we don't treat other professionals like this. The querents should be educated that they don't treat Us like that either... and you can damn well be sure they ain't getting one moment of my time if all they're gonna do is waste it.
Why bother expending the energy? I have better things to do, and better readings to do. You have the right to say, "No, I'm afraid I'm not the reader you're looking for," and turn them away.
Maybe knowing "Why do they come to us" is helpful. But, I also need to know Why I Read Tarot, and it ain't to impress non-believers, or to gain their acceptance of my art, or win them over in any way. That's a distraction, and I don't want those kinds of distractions when I'm trying to focus and "go in."
You have to protect yourself sometimes. I have to anyhow, people see this cute little girl who would never hurt a fly. Sometimes I have to show them my Tough Exterior. If find it important to say, "I respect myself too much to let my Gift be abused by YOU." That abuse can be "Testing" you, it can be asking for readings all the time, it can be ridiculing you for Tarot reading... it can be lots of things.
I have a Zero Tolerance attitude for people like this client you describe. See how much this one woman has bothered you for how long now? I won't let them leech me and cause me this kind of grief. I just won't.
You might simply decline reading for someone in a situation where they set up you.
Would anyone walk into a doctor's office, knowing they're diabetic, and say, "Ok, I know what's wrong with me. Now why don't you tell me what's wrong?" just to test them?
Respect. To me, that's what it's about. If they don't show me the respect that I deserve, I don't give them my Gift of reading. They don't deserve it. I don't *care* if it's just ignorance that makes them believe what they do. I don't care. I don't care if they think I'm "right" or not. It's the Zen thing to me... let go of your need for their approval. I read cards. I don't read them so I can "prove" myself to anyone.
If you want a reading, let's sit.
If you want to play games, here's a quarter. Go to the video arcade.
I just don't have the patience with people who want to !@$% with me, no matter their "explanation" as to why they think they need to test me. Like I said above, we don't treat other professionals like this. The querents should be educated that they don't treat Us like that either... and you can damn well be sure they ain't getting one moment of my time if all they're gonna do is waste it.
Why bother expending the energy? I have better things to do, and better readings to do. You have the right to say, "No, I'm afraid I'm not the reader you're looking for," and turn them away.
Maybe knowing "Why do they come to us" is helpful. But, I also need to know Why I Read Tarot, and it ain't to impress non-believers, or to gain their acceptance of my art, or win them over in any way. That's a distraction, and I don't want those kinds of distractions when I'm trying to focus and "go in."
You have to protect yourself sometimes. I have to anyhow, people see this cute little girl who would never hurt a fly. Sometimes I have to show them my Tough Exterior. If find it important to say, "I respect myself too much to let my Gift be abused by YOU." That abuse can be "Testing" you, it can be asking for readings all the time, it can be ridiculing you for Tarot reading... it can be lots of things.
I have a Zero Tolerance attitude for people like this client you describe. See how much this one woman has bothered you for how long now? I won't let them leech me and cause me this kind of grief. I just won't.
lark
Oh Chronata
You made me laugh!
I just got a vision of my table with a Magic 8 ball on it.
"Well now, we've already used the tarot for your reading so lets see what the Magic 8 ball has to say to your 12 'slid'er in there' after timer questions.
yes
no
no
maybe
yes
yes
yes
no
yes
no
no
maybe
NEXT!
You made me laugh!
I just got a vision of my table with a Magic 8 ball on it.
"Well now, we've already used the tarot for your reading so lets see what the Magic 8 ball has to say to your 12 'slid'er in there' after timer questions.
yes
no
no
maybe
yes
yes
yes
no
yes
no
no
maybe
NEXT!
contrascarpe
When I start a reading, I have questions I ask a new querent while they are shuffling. The first is, have you ever had your cards read before. By their answer I can get a feel for what they expect out of my reading.
Whatever their answer, I tell them that they should know that every reader has a different style and approach, and then explain to them what my thoughts are - that even though I believe there is psychic energy in all of us, that the cards are a window for me to glimpse what is going on in their lives and where they may be headed. I then tell them that if I get a strong psychic connection, I may be able to see things beyond that, but never commit to this. Even though my response is the same, at least I find out up front how "experienced" my querent is.
As far as "testers", I find the venue of my readings dictates whether they will show up or not. When I read at the shop, the vast majority of my customers are ones who specifically come out for a reading, thus they know they are going to pay a good price for a reading, and to test me would be a waste of their time. They are coming to me for a purpose (more on that later). House parties or fairs are another thing altogether. You are more inclined to get someone looking for a reading on a whim, and treat the reading as if it were a parlor trick. You rarely get the heavy "my life is about to change in a big way" type of reading in that atmosphere.
OK, my second question to a customer is "do you have a specific question in mind, or do you want me to throw a few cards, tell you what I see and we can go from there?". I know most readers will just throw cards anyway, but I like to set up options for my querent right up front. This usually takes the pressure off because I can guarantee this - they have come with a specific question, but often are too nervous to blurt it out, especially to a stranger (and in my case, often to someone of the opposite sex, particularly when it is a relationship issue). I find that even though I know they have a specific question, they are going to ask for the general to begin with. This gives them a chance to calm down and keep the door open to their question. It also allows me to have a chance to see what is on their mind and take the impetus off them to actually ask the question. We almost always get there before they have to ask.
As for how to handle the dreaded "tester" if things don't always go as I mentioned above - well, the pregnant pause is always effective, sprinkle it with a few sighs and shaking of the head. Then just say that things are cloudy and you are getting a block. Finally, just put the cards to the side, pick up a new deck and start fresh, never actually putting away the cards that have stumped you - perhaps with a fresh deck you will hit on something, and then use the original cards to expand on it.
When things aren't going well, it can get quite frustrating.
Dan
Whatever their answer, I tell them that they should know that every reader has a different style and approach, and then explain to them what my thoughts are - that even though I believe there is psychic energy in all of us, that the cards are a window for me to glimpse what is going on in their lives and where they may be headed. I then tell them that if I get a strong psychic connection, I may be able to see things beyond that, but never commit to this. Even though my response is the same, at least I find out up front how "experienced" my querent is.
As far as "testers", I find the venue of my readings dictates whether they will show up or not. When I read at the shop, the vast majority of my customers are ones who specifically come out for a reading, thus they know they are going to pay a good price for a reading, and to test me would be a waste of their time. They are coming to me for a purpose (more on that later). House parties or fairs are another thing altogether. You are more inclined to get someone looking for a reading on a whim, and treat the reading as if it were a parlor trick. You rarely get the heavy "my life is about to change in a big way" type of reading in that atmosphere.
OK, my second question to a customer is "do you have a specific question in mind, or do you want me to throw a few cards, tell you what I see and we can go from there?". I know most readers will just throw cards anyway, but I like to set up options for my querent right up front. This usually takes the pressure off because I can guarantee this - they have come with a specific question, but often are too nervous to blurt it out, especially to a stranger (and in my case, often to someone of the opposite sex, particularly when it is a relationship issue). I find that even though I know they have a specific question, they are going to ask for the general to begin with. This gives them a chance to calm down and keep the door open to their question. It also allows me to have a chance to see what is on their mind and take the impetus off them to actually ask the question. We almost always get there before they have to ask.
As for how to handle the dreaded "tester" if things don't always go as I mentioned above - well, the pregnant pause is always effective, sprinkle it with a few sighs and shaking of the head. Then just say that things are cloudy and you are getting a block. Finally, just put the cards to the side, pick up a new deck and start fresh, never actually putting away the cards that have stumped you - perhaps with a fresh deck you will hit on something, and then use the original cards to expand on it.
When things aren't going well, it can get quite frustrating.
Dan
